On this "Face the Nation" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- House Foreign Affairs Committee chair Rep. Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas
- Former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy
- CBS News chief election and campaign correspondent Robert Costa
- Sen. Raphael Warnock, Democrat of Georgia
Click here to browse full transcripts of "Face the Nation."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: A government shutdown is narrowly avoided, but when will Congress tackle the national security risks facing the U.S.?
Following the shocking, fiery raid on a concert hall on the outskirts of Moscow, a branch of ISIS claims responsibility, and U.S. officials confirm the terror group was solely responsible.
We will get the latest from the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, Michael McCaul, and former top counterterrorism official Samantha Vinograd.
Plus: As immigration officials brace for a spring influx of migrants, the head of Border Patrol tells us the national security risks that keep him up at night.
Then:
(Begin VT)
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): The motion is agreed to.
(End VT)
Shutdown averted. President Biden and Congress have reached a $1 trillion funding deal, but the agreement has sparked a new attempt to remove the House speaker.
Former Speaker Kevin McCarthy will join us to discuss how Republicans can address their internal divisions.
And later, we will delve into presidential politics with Georgia Democratic Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock.
Stay tuned for all this and more on Face the Nation.
Welcome to Face the Nation. We have a packed show ahead.
Tomorrow, the Republican presidential nominee, Donald Trump, will be facing two legal challenges, including the risk of having around half a billion dollars of his assets seized.
President Biden is once again urging a tumultuous Republican-led Congress to approve a foreign aid package and address the national security concerns related to border security.
However, we begin by focusing on the tragic terrorist attack abroad. In Russia, citizens are observing a national day of mourning for the 137 individuals who lost their lives in an ISIS assault outside Moscow.
Our foreign correspondent Debora Patta brings us the latest updates.
(Begin VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voice-over): Investigators are examining the aftermath of the recent massacre near Moscow, with the wreckage still smoldering.
On Friday night, armed individuals in military attire stormed into the Crocus City Hall, a well-known concert venue, and systematically began shooting at the crowd before setting the building on fire. Videos circulating on social media depict people screaming and taking cover...
(GUNSHOTS)
DEBORA PATTA: ... as the assailants unleashed a barrage of automatic gunfire.
"There's gunfire here," a man exclaims. "The hall is burning. They've set us on fire."
Outside, flames consumed the structure. Inside, concert attendees tried to flee the relentless shooting, caught in a mass of terrified individuals. Another video captures the attackers moving with lethal determination through the venue, shooting people down, the grim reality highlighted by a growing row of body bags.
The assault occurred following a U.S. intelligence warning to Russia about a potential ISIS attack on concert venues, urging its citizens to avoid such places. However, this week, after a contentious election victory, President Vladimir Putin dismissed the U.S. alert as blatant blackmail.
In a televised speech on Saturday following the tragedy, Putin informed a shocked nation that 11 individuals, including four gunmen, had been apprehended in connection to the audacious attack. Despite ISIS claiming responsibility, he used the opportunity to rally support for his military campaign in Ukraine, now in its third year.
(PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DEBORA PATTA: Putin Claims Assailants Were Headed Towards Ukraine
During a recent statement, Putin claimed that the assailants were moving towards Ukraine, where they allegedly had a Russian border crossing prepared from the Ukrainian side.
Both Ukraine and the U.S. have strongly denied these accusations.
(End VT)
Now, we turn to Texas Congressman Michael McCaul, the Republican chairman of the Foreign Affairs Committee.
Welcome, Congressman McCaul. Thank you for joining us today.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-Texas): Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Chair McCaul Discusses ISIS-K Attack in Moscow
Chair McCaul, it has been reported that the recent attack in Moscow was carried out by ISIS-K, a group known to originate from Afghanistan.
Given the advanced warning the U.S. had, do you believe there is an ongoing threat in Eurasia, with U.S. interests potentially at risk?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Yes, I do.
General Kurilla, the CENTCOM Commander, testified before Congress this week that ISIS-K could have the capability to conduct operations outside of Afghanistan within six months. It appears they acted swiftly, striking near Moscow within six days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I believe that Europe should also be a concern. It feels like we are reverting to a familiar pattern where history repeats itself. The fall of Afghanistan, along with the hasty exit and the lack of ISR capability, which stands for intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, has left us vulnerable. This situation has now become a new training ground for ISIS.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, the U.S. did have some intelligence indicating the threat of ISIS, especially when they alerted Russia, correct?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: That's correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Your committee has been closely monitoring the situation in Afghanistan. Recently, you conducted a hearing with retired Generals Mark Milley and Frank McKenzie. They both pointed out that the State Department did not adequately plan for the withdrawal and evacuation from Afghanistan.
Considering the current threat landscape faced by the U.S. across multiple continents such as Haiti, Niger, and the Middle East, do you have confidence in the government's ability to safeguard its citizens in those regions and execute evacuations if necessary?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I am deeply concerned.
The situation in Haiti is alarming, with our embassy at risk, and evacuation efforts underway. The failure to plan for evacuation in Afghanistan, as highlighted by the generals, was a State Department issue, not the Department of Defense. It is legally mandated for the State Department to have an evacuation plan in place.
Therefore, if such planning fails…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, they said it was too late when it was put into place. There was a plan, but it was too late.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: It – it – and it was put in place, but only at the time that Kabul was falling and the embassy was starting to be evacuated.
I think what the State Department thought they could do is continue our operations in the embassy and normalize with the Taliban and stay there beyond the military retrograde. And I think that was a serious error in judgment.
And Ambassador Wilson was the major culprit behind that, including all the way up to the White House.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the State Department has pointed out that the Trump administration that brokered the deal for withdrawal could have planned for an evacuation and did not.
What do you make of that?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Yes, they – they're by law required to plan. I think DOD was starting to pick up the slack.
You know, we saw the threats coming in, the threat vectors. The I.C. was telling us it was going to fall fast. The DOD knew this. And the State Department seemed to have these rose-colored lenses on. When you listen to the White House press comments about it's not going to be like Vietnam, everything's fine, and it wasn't.
U.S. Representatives Discuss Aid for Afghan Allies
During a recent interview, Representative Michael McCaul expressed concerns about the situation in Afghanistan, highlighting the need to help Afghan allies who worked alongside the U.S. He mentioned the inclusion of 12,000 additional special visas for Afghan nationals in the government funding bill as a positive step but emphasized that more needs to be done.
McCaul commended Speaker Johnson for his efforts and stated that there is a commitment to vote on Ukraine aid after Easter. With Ukraine running out of ammunition, the urgency of the situation is clear.
Timeline for Ukraine Aid Vote
Representative Michael McCaul revealed that Speaker Johnson has committed to putting the Ukraine aid bill on the floor after Easter, indicating a timeline for action. The discussion around providing aid to Ukraine comes as the country faces challenges due to ammunition shortages.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I would like to be done as soon as possible.
I think the situation in Ukraine is dire. The front lines are – are – it's – we can't – if we lose in Ukraine like Afghanistan...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: ... and – and lose to Putin and let him, you know, take over Ukraine and Moldova, Georgia, and abandon our allies, like we did in Afghanistan, does that make the United States weaker or stronger? I think weaker.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But why – why isn't there that sense of urgency on the speaker's part? I mean, respectfully, this has been stuck in the House for weeks. You have been warning about this. It needs to be acted on.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: He understands this.
He is in a very difficult spot. And this, you know, motion to vacate the chair thing – I believe he's committed, because he understands national security. He leans on, you know, myself, the chairmen of Armed Services, House Intelligence for advice on this. And he knows how important this is.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you trust that this will be voted on?
Because, as you just mentioned, that motion to vacate was just introduced by Marjorie Taylor Greene. This is an – an effort to oust him. She has put this in place. You're all headed home to your districts. You are all going to be asked about this. She's the only one so far saying she wants to oust the speaker. Will she stay the only one?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: You know, I think it's indicative that even Matt Gaetz, who was the architect of ousting McCarthy, is saying this would be a huge mistake, because it could actually throw the balance of power over to Hakeem Jeffries.
I think that's one argument. I think the other argument is, we don't need dysfunction right now. And with the world on fire, the way it is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Don't we have dysfunction right now?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, we do.
And with the world on fire the way it is, we need to govern. And that is not just for Republicans, but in a bipartisan way, get things done for the country. That's in the national security interest of the United States. This is not just Ukraine. It's Israel and Indo-Pacific as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
Before I let you go, 11 aid organizations have issued a letter saying that Israel is standing in the way of aid deliveries in Gaza, their firsthand experience. Do you doubt their testimonies?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I think we are having difficulties.
During a recent interview, Representative Michael McCaul discussed the challenges of providing humanitarian assistance in Gaza while also addressing security concerns. He mentioned the importance of stabilizing Southern Gaza but highlighted the need to address the issue of Yahya Sinwar, the head of Hamas, in Rafah. McCaul expressed concerns about Hamas not participating in cease-fire talks fairly, suggesting that they are not playing by the rules.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: … playing – Director Burns talked to, you know, the Israelis. They agreed to the ratio. I don't think Hamas will. They're not playing fair.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Chair McCaul, thank you for your time today.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Margaret, thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the former Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy, who joins us this morning from Bakersfield, California.
Good to have you back on the program, sir.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-California): Thank you. Thanks for having me on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, since you left Congress, we've had four high-profile Republican departures, including Mike Gallagher, a young rising star, someone you put in key positions, announced retirements, including from one of your lieutenants, Patrick McHenry.
Is the chaos within your caucus driving these departures?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, I think it's causing some of it, yes.
"I mean, the difficulty here is, when you allow eight Republicans to join with all the Democrats to determine who can run the House, when 96 percent decide one way, it creates some chaos. They've got to move through this, put the country first and be able to move on."
"I think they're able to do that. Speaker Johnson is doing the very best job he can. It's a difficult situation. But, look, the one advice I would give to the Conference and to the speaker is, do not be fearful of a motion to vacate. I do not think they could do it again. That was surely based on Matt Gaetz trying to stop an ethics complaint."
"I don't think the Democrats will go along with it too. Focus on the country, focus on the job you're supposed to do, and actually do it fearlessly. Just move forward."
MARGARET BRENNAN: Patrick McHenry, one of your lieutenants, said you can either die a speaker and worry about them taking you out or live every day as your last.
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you suggesting Speaker Johnson is afraid to take a vote on something like Ukraine?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: No, no, not at all.
No, no, I don't think – I don't think Speaker Johnson's afraid at all. And I don't believe the motion will come up. What the – the motion Marjorie put in was not privileged. So it's not…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: It's not being called up for a vote. I – I don't think the Democrats will go along with this either.
We're close to the election. We watched what transpired the last time. You went three weeks without Congress being able to act. You can't do anything if you don't have a speaker.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I think we've moved past that. We've got a lot of challenges. We have got FISA coming up before us. We've got Ukraine funding. We've got a border wide open.
Those are the issues the country is actually looking on, the economy and others. If we focus on the country and what the country's desire…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … I think the personalities can solve their own problems.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, when you were in Washington, you used to deal with Marjorie Taylor Greene, who filed this motion to vacate to oust the speaker.
She's blaming Johnson for everything from chaos at the border. She says she's starting this process to end the chaos that Americans are living in every single day. Do you endorse her tactic? What's the game here?
Former Representative Kevin McCarthy on Finding Common Ground
During a recent interview, former Representative Kevin McCarthy emphasized the importance of finding common ground in policy discussions. McCarthy highlighted the need to sit down with fellow members to understand their concerns and work towards solutions based on policy.
McCarthy referenced his experience with Marjorie and Matt, noting that while differences of opinion may arise, it is crucial to address them through dialogue and compromise. He expressed confidence in addressing policy-related issues through constructive conversations.
McCarthy also reflected on the achievements of a small majority in passing significant legislation, including a border security bill and an energy independence bill. Despite facing challenges, McCarthy underscored the importance of collaboration and bipartisan efforts in governance.
When discussing the impact of legislative measures, McCarthy acknowledged the hurdles faced in the Senate but highlighted key accomplishments such as welfare reform and historic budget cuts. He emphasized the need for continued bipartisan cooperation to drive progress and address critical issues facing the nation.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: ... focusing on welfare reform. Recovered $20 billion from the IRS by targeting American citizens. Revisiting NEPA reform after 40 years, introducing a parents bill of rights.
We have demonstrated our ability to govern in various ways...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well...
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: ... which would demonstrate to the American public that with a new president and a majority in the Senate, America would be much stronger.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have mentioned Matt Gaetz twice now. So, I would like to inquire if you have evidence to support your claim.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, I believe the Ethics Committee - - it was solely Matt approaching me, attempting – pressuring me to engage in illegal activities to impede the Ethics Committee's ongoing investigation that was initiated long before I assumed the role of speaker.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Illegal activities?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I would never partake in that. I am unaware of the specifics – I do not have all the facts.
It's a – it's a personal matter regarding his actions as a congressman. I would simply state that the Ethics Committee is entitled to examine any matters they are investigating, and I will not intervene in any way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
Setting aside that discussion, let's delve into the current legislative landscape, as many Americans perceive the ongoing events as chaotic and yearn for tangible solutions to real issues.
In the realm of national security, a domain that was once a top priority for Republicans, there seems to be a lack of urgency. As discussed earlier with Chair McCaul, Johnson has not provided a clear timeline for a vote on crucial packages concerning Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan.
Who is causing this delay? Could it be a fear of Mr. Trump?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: No, I don't believe fear is a factor here.
It's important to remember the pressing matters at hand, such as government funding...
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why not establish a specific date?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, I believe he is in the process of setting a date.
In addition, there is a need to inform and rally the members to make progress. During my tenure as speaker, I always advocated for concurrently addressing border security and foreign policy matters.
My proposed course of action would have been to address our H.R.2 alongside the security concerns. However, I believe Israel's situation warrants a different approach. The issue should have been addressed promptly, without the need for extensive deliberation – especially following October 7.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Agreed.
(CROSSTALK)
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: You don't want to send the wrong message.
Well, what I'm saying is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … you need to work together to move forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: You've got to secure the American border.
What I would use is the power of the majority, is to sit down, just as we did with the Fiscal Responsibility Act. Go directly to the president. If you sit around and try to do four leaders, you're never going to get to an answer. Sit down and negotiate with the president directly about border security and Ukraine and Taiwan.
I believe you would get to an answer. And you've got the power, and use that power of the majority to move.
I believe, when they come back – you just heard the chairman there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it's barely a majority at this – at this point.
I mean, by the end of April, you're going to be down to 217 Republicans to 213 Democrats. I mean, the dynamics change here. Should you have – should you have stayed in Congress?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, well, the one thing I will tell you, you still have the majority.
Remember, when we had a small majority of just five, we did pass the most conservative border security bill. We did cut more than $2 trillion. We did pass a parents bill of rights. We did be able to reform welfare. So we did things other Congress couldn't do with 30-seat majority.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: You have the majority. You can still govern and use that power to do exactly that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It – it sounds like you're – you're providing some coaching advice there, sir.
I want to ask you…
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … ask you, though, do you speak to Speaker Johnson? And I know you do speak to President – former President Trump.
Do you have plans to return to government potentially in a Trump administration?
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Look, I have always said I – I will serve whichever way I – if I'm the best person for the job.
But I think people worried about whether they get a job in the next administration is the wrong place to be. You first have to have the election. I think you should be going out to the American public and showing them, yes, with President Trump get elected, we would have a secure border.
We'd have a stronger economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We wouldn't be evacuating five embassies. We wouldn't have war around the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, those are counterfactuals.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We would be much stronger and the future would be much brighter.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those – those are – are counterfactuals.
(LAUGHTER)
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I don't think so.
I served – I served with both presidents. That's exactly the situation today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We have evacuated five embassies under President Biden. We've had high inflation under President Biden.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We have a wide-open border. We have people who are on the terrorist watch list…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … more people in one month of February getting across our border than the entire time when President Trump was in office.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're going to – and we're going to…
FORMER REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: So, that's actual truths of what's happening today.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we're going to talk to the head of Border Patrol later in the program and our immigration correspondent about some of the specifics of those issues.
Kevin McCarthy, welcome back.
Face the Nation will return shortly. Please stay tuned.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former President Trump is facing a significant legal and financial deadline tomorrow. He must either post a half-billion-dollar bond following a judgment of civil fraud against him and his company, or risk having New York Attorney General Letitia James seize his properties as collateral.
Joining us now is chief election and campaign correspondent Robert Costa.
Bob, this could have a major impact on the upcoming campaign. Will he be able to come up with the funds?
ROBERT COSTA: Good morning, Margaret.
Former President Trump's legal team has indicated that he will not be able to meet the bond deadline by Monday. They may announce a delay tactic or appeal within the next 24 hours. It is evident that, at this juncture, the funds are not readily available, despite Trump's attempts to leverage the merger of his social media company.
The attorney general of New York is taking swift action, initiating asset seizure proceedings in Westchester County. Trump's bank accounts and properties, such as Trump Tower and 40 Wall Street, could soon be frozen or confiscated by a marshal or sheriff.
What are the potential political implications of this situation? The financial and personal stakes for Mr. Trump are significant.
As he grapples with financial challenges, there is a looming political crisis on the horizon. With a cash shortage in the 2024 presidential race and President Biden's campaign amassing funds, Trump may need to rely on the Republican National Committee to cover his legal expenses. Lara Trump, his daughter-in-law, now holds an executive position at the RNC, adding another layer of complexity to the situation.
Furthermore, the unfolding financial transactions and the looming threat of a criminal case related to hush money payments could further complicate matters for Trump in the coming weeks.
Stay tuned for updates on the hush money case mentioned earlier, as more details are expected to emerge soon.
It's worth noting that tomorrow marks a crucial moment in the hush money case. Mr. Trump is accused of altering business records to facilitate hush money payments linked to an alleged affair with a porn star. Trump is pushing for a trial delay beyond mid-April, and tomorrow's proceedings will shed light on the trial timeline.
We will be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: For all the political news during the week, be sure to tune in to America Decides, a daily show on our streaming network that airs at 5:00, 6:00 and 9:00 p.m.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with Georgia Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock and an interview with the chief of the Border Patrol on the situation at the U.S.-Mexico border.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We go now to Georgia Democratic Senator Reverend Raphael Warnock. He is part of President Biden's re-election campaign.
Good morning and welcome to FACE THE NATION.
SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Thank you so much for inviting me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, your state of Georgia was so key to President Biden's win back in 2020. Our polling now, though, shows Donald Trump with 51 percent of the potential 2024 vote, Biden at 48 percent. When it comes to black voters, support has dropped since the last election.
Why do you think that enthusiasm has declined?
RAPHAEL WARNOCK on Georgia Voters
Well, listen, you know, it's still relatively early in the campaign. And I can tell you, as someone whose name has been on the ballot five times in less than three years, that the polls don't tell you nearly as much as the people do. I think that at the end of day black voters, Georgia voters, will see that this is a binary choice. And the more Donald Trump talks, the better our fortunes will be. And, in the end, I believe that Georgia voters are going to do for Joe Biden what they did for me.
MARGARET BRENNAN on Democratic Campaigning
But in states like Georgia, Democrats have been campaigning on action on voting rights, safeguarding democracy, police reform. The administration hasn't been able to legislate really on any of those things.
Trayvon Martin's mom was at an event this past week and said, "the people are not understanding what the politicians are doing, and the politicians definitely don't understand what the people want." She was talking about the state level, but at the federal level, how do you explain the inaction on these issues?
RAPHAEL WARNOCK on Voting Rights
Well, nobody's been more vigilant and focused on the issue in the Senate on voting rights than me. I was John Lewis' pastor. And I saw up close his courage, the depth of his commitment, his understanding that change is slow. That's the nature of politics and history. Often we take one step forward, we take another step back, but we keep pushing.
And in a real sense it's the history of this country. There are moments when the democracy expands. There are moments when it contracts. And a Donald Trump part two would represent a contraction that we could not bear.
When we think about the threat, the threat on voting rights, the threat on women's reproductive rights, their ability to decide what happens to their own body. And so we remain vigilant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been outspoken on the issue of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. According to CBS polling, it is 61 percent of black adults polled by CBS say Biden should encourage Israel to decrease or stop military actions. And the feelings are really strong, particularly among young voters.
Recently we also saw a thousand black pastors from congregations across the country issue a demand for a cease-fire. Sir, of all the issues facing the black community, why do you think this particular one is resonating in the way that it is?
RAPHAEL WARNOCK: Well, you know, we - we, in the African American community, understand human struggle. We know it when we see it. And I called for a negotiated cease-fire just a couple of weeks ago on the floor of the United States Senate.
Look, the state of Israel is our ally. And they're - they are our most important partner in the Middle East. But right now we are having an important conversation about principles, about American values, and a real sense that's what's at stake.
On October 7th, Hamas carried out terrible attacks against innocent people, including Americans. We cannot ignore this. Simultaneously, we cannot ignore the scenes of immense suffering and human tragedy in Gaza.
Therefore, we will persist in advocating for a negotiated cease-fire. I firmly believe that for Mr. Netanyahu to enter Rafah, where around 1.4 million Palestinians are seeking shelter, would be morally indefensible, it would be unacceptable and I hope that, in the end, reason will prevail and we can eventually reach a two-state solution.
In terms of what the U.S. can influence, there is ongoing debate within the Democratic party regarding U.S. military support for Israel. Just recently, 11 organizations working in Gaza, such as the Episcopal Church, Oxfam, and Save the Children, released a letter stating that "the humanitarian response in Gaza, including U.S.-funded humanitarian assistance, has been consistently and arbitrarily denied, restricted and impeded by the Israeli authorities."
Do you fear that continuing to supply American weapons to Israel will compromise moral authority? And do you think that the Biden administration should halt arms transfers?
Israel resides in a perilous region. Its adversaries extend beyond Hamas. There are significant geopolitical considerations that we must take into account.
Political Leader Calls for Humanitarian Aid Amid Conflict
Amid the ongoing conflict in the Middle East, political leader Raphael Warnock emphasized the importance of providing humanitarian aid to those affected while supporting Israel's right to defend itself. Warnock highlighted the need for a security supplemental that has already passed the Senate, calling for aid to Gaza and support for partners in the Indo-Pacific region to address the crisis on the ground.
When questioned about the stance on Israel's claims and international law, Warnock emphasized the importance of engaging with partners to ensure aid reaches the people of Gaza, stopping short of making a definitive statement on the matter.
Warnock concluded by stressing the need for a ceasefire to bring an end to the conflict.
Focus Shifts to U.S. Southern Border
As discussions on international conflicts continue, attention has also turned to the U.S. southern border with Mexico, where border apprehensions have increased in recent months. Approximately 16,000 more apprehensions were reported compared to January, raising concerns about border security and immigration policies.
Stay tuned for more updates on these developing stories.
(BEGIN VT)
INTERVIEWER: Are the smugglers determining the rules of engagement in this situation?
RESPONDENT (Chief, U.S. Border Patrol): Yes, they are indeed. They establish the parameters of the flow, and we react accordingly. Our goal is to anticipate their movements and prevent them from utilizing certain areas, particularly those we believe pose a threat to both us and the migrants. However, it's important to recognize that there are over 1,900 miles of border with Mexico. While 20,000 border patrol agents may seem like a substantial number, when you factor in the need for continuous coverage 24/7 throughout the year, that figure diminishes rapidly. This is precisely their strategy. They will push groups across the border knowing that we will prioritize their safety from a humanitarian standpoint. In the meantime, while we are preoccupied with these efforts, what are they doing just a few miles away?
JASON OWENS: Global Smuggling Routes
So far this fiscal year alone we've had people from 160 countries or more come across our border illegally. This is a global issue. We have people literally from all points across the globe making that same journey. And they're using smuggling routes. Every country and every region has smugglers that try and facilitate a pipeline for them to get to where they're going and they're connected with one another. So, they may, if they're coming from Europe or they're coming from Asia, they'll find ways to get to maybe South America. And then from South America they may make their way up through the Darien Gap and - and make their way up through Central America and ultimately find their way to decision points that take them to different points along our borders depending on what smuggling organization that they're using. But it doesn't matter where they're coming from.
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Former President Trump has said that we have millions and millions of people coming from jails and prisons. Is that accurate? Millions and millions?
JASON OWENS: I don't know. I don't know what the - I don't know if - if - if they're - other countries are releasing people from jails and those folks that got released are making their way up or not. I don't know what the numbers would be. It's the unknown that scares us.
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: By and large, though, are the vast majority of these folks good people, if you will?
JASON OWENS: Yes, I think they absolutely are – are by and large good people. I wish they would choose the right way to come into our country and not start off on the wrong foot by - by breaking our laws. There are still people that we're finding in those groups, though, that have criminal backgrounds, that have - that have been convicted sexual predators, that have been convicted gang members. A very small amount in that population. But they're still there.
Most of the folks that we're encountering that are turning themselves in, you know, they're coming across because they're either fleeing terrible conditions, or they're economic migrants looking for a better way of life. It doesn't make them bad people, it's just that they're not being respectful of the laws that we've established as a country and they're - they're actually putting people in this country in harm's way because they're pulling the border security apparatus off of task.
(END VT)
Great interview, Camilo. It is pretty shocking to hear an official of his level say essentially that the cartels are in charge of the U.S. border. What are the risks that he's referring to here?
CAMILO MONTOYA-GALVEZ: Well, Margaret, we should point out that at a very basic level the situation at the U.S./Mexico border is mainly a humanitarian crisis fueled by record numbers of desperate people who are fleeing desperate circumstances. But what the border patrol chief is telling us, is that it also has national security implications because he's mainly concerned about the so-called got-aways. These are migrants who are actively trying to evade law enforcement and who are captured on cameras or sensors but are not apprehended for different reasons. And so far this fiscal year, since October, 140,000 people have essentially snuck into the country without being apprehended by border patrol along the U.S./Mexico border.
Border Patrol Chief Owens is concerned about their intentions. Whether they're criminals. Whether they're national security threats. And so that is a national security threat that he is outlining.
Recent statistics show that the majority of migrants encountered by border patrol agents are not serious criminals. However, it only takes one negative incident to pose a significant challenge for law enforcement.
Discussing the complexity of the issue, it is noted that the border communities are facing an upcoming surge in migrant crossings. In the Tucson sector of Arizona, which has become the busiest region for border patrol activities, there is a strain on resources. The main shelter system is on the verge of rejecting migrants, including families with young children, due to a shortage of federal funds.
Despite the recent government funding approval, which includes cuts to shelters and NGOs housing migrants as per the request of Republican lawmakers, the situation remains dire. The new funding may not reach the affected individuals in time, potentially leading to border patrol releasing migrants onto the streets of Tucson.
As the debate in Washington rages on, the border communities are preparing for yet another impending crisis.
Host: And you're getting back to, it's Congress that controls the purse strings.
Guest: That's right.
Host: And provides the resources and the president tries to set the policy.
Host: I want to ask you about a video that we're going to show to our viewer because it's been widely circulated and I think it needs some context.
Guest: Yes.
Host: What we are seeing here are National Guard forces in uniform trying to prevent migrants, who are already on U.S. soil from Texas, from being able to claim asylum. What do we need to know about this, because it's getting very politicized?
Camilo Montoya-Galvez: Well, what we have been told is that a group of several hundred migrants, most of them Venezuelan men, broke through these barriers that the state of Texas has set up near stretches of the border, including in El Paso, to deter illegal crossings. One migrant was arrested for assaulting a National Guard soldier deployed by Texas Governor Greg Abbott. We don't know what prompted this incident and the migrants to do this. But I do have to underscore that the Texas National Guard is there in El Paso and other parts of the border to physically block migrants from being encountered by federal border patrol agents. Why? Because border patrol agents have a legal obligation to process these migrants if they are physically on American soil and also to refer them to an asylum hearing if they request humanitarian protection. Texas is trying to actively block that. These migrants were already on U.S. soil because the international boundary there is actually in the middle of the Rio Grande, so they had to be processed under federal law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that's the subject for another conversation about that tension between state and federal officials.
Camilo, thank you for bringing us that interview.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll be back in a moment.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by CBS contributor Samantha Vinograd, a former counterterrorism official for the Department of Homeland Security under the Biden and serving in the Obama administration.
Good to have you here again.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Thanks, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, a lot I want to get to you with.
Let me first start, U.S. law enforcement, to be clear, says there is no credible, imminent threat to the U.S. homeland that is known emanating from that error attack that we saw ISIS carry out in Moscow. But how concerning is the terror environment right now for Americans?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD:
Well, I will say from a counter-terrorism perspective, the attack near Moscow was tragic but it was also unsurprising. The intelligence community has been warning for years that ISIS, despite territory leadership losses, has retained its ability to conduct operations largely through regional affiliated like ISIS-K, who's claimed responsibility for the attack near Moscow. We've seen ISIS-K attack American interests outside the Kabul airport during the evacuation, attack the Russian embassy in Kabul in 2022, and increasingly increase the geographic scope of their operations in Central Asia, Iran and now Moscow.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD:
We also know that ISIS is relying on its regional affiliates to attack its interests in the west. And from my time advising the secretary of Homeland Security, I will tell you that we were concerned about the threat that ISIS-K posed to the American interests and to the homeland and we took certain steps to mitigate them.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
Can you tell us what those were?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD:
Well, without getting into operational details, the Department of Homeland Security and its intelligence counterterrorism and law enforcement partners regularly seeks to get access to the best intelligence possible and then to use analysis of matters, like travel patterns, to inform screening and vetting, to inform cooperation with other partners globally, to try to prevent any potential known or suspected terrorists from just entering the hemisphere. And that's really where, Margaret, having adequate resources from screening and vetting, both from an information standpoint and from a personal - personnel standpoint becomes incredibly critical.
MARGARET BRENNAN:
And that's where we hear some of the political talking points about the porousness of the southern border and trying to make a connection to a terror threat.
During a recent briefing with the border chief, it was revealed that 140,000 individuals known as "got aways" were detected at the border. However, the focus now shifts to what went undetected in the blind spots. The question arises - what measures are necessary to address these gaps?
In light of this information, national security expert Samantha Vinograd offers insights. She highlights that the percentage of "got aways" compared to actual encounters remains consistent between the Trump and Biden administrations. When considering the issue of terrorist travel to the United States, various modes such as air, maritime, and land travel come into play.
Vinograd emphasizes the importance of deploying resources overseas to prevent potential terrorists from even reaching US transportation hubs. At the border itself, every migrant undergoes screening and vetting procedures against terrorism and criminal databases. However, the effectiveness of these checks is reliant on the quality of information available for vetting purposes. There is a pressing need for increased resources to ensure that vetting decisions are based on comprehensive and accurate data.
Following our withdrawals from Afghanistan and Iraq, the shifting intelligence priorities towards great power competition with China and Russia have resulted in a loss of certain intelligence capabilities. With the increasing number of countries of origin presenting at our border, it is crucial to reconsider the criminal history and terrorism-related arrangements we have with other countries. This will enable the vetting team, not solely DHS, to make well-informed decisions based on up-to-date and accurate information.
MARGARET BRENNAN: However, it's important to note that the effectiveness of this vetting process is dependent on the availability of information. Not all countries around the world share their prison registries with the United States government, correct? There are gaps in our knowledge.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: That's correct. Some countries do not share this information, which is why we must rely on a combination of the most reliable and current intelligence we can gather, analyze, and integrate into the vetting system, along with voluntary agreements with other nations. It's essential to establish a robust international information framework to support our vetting processes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are negotiations underway with countries like Venezuela, for instance? That's a country that has been in discussions regarding this issue.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Yes, based on my experience at DHS and collaborating with the Department of Justice and the Department of State, there are ongoing talks on how to strengthen our information-sharing agreements with other nations. Simultaneously, within the intelligence community, there are discussions on optimizing intelligence collection and analysis resources. It is imperative to reevaluate the international information framework that feeds into our vetting processes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And there is a time limit on how long someone can be detained for under federal law. So, how quickly can you do all this screening?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Well, screening is a snapshot check. It relies on the most up-to-date information available at that particular moment. If the federal government had more resources, they could continuously screen migrants. Even after their release, if new information became available, there could be an ongoing screening process. This is where additional screening resources, in terms of personnel and technology, would be beneficial for the federal government to ensure all migrants are continuously screened. This would ultimately enhance homeland security.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And during that interview, the head of border security did request more technology and personnel.
Quickly, regarding the situation in Texas, the state does not possess all the screening equipment you mentioned, correct?
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: The implications of SB-4 on homeland security would be severe. The federal vetting system is intricate, relying on a combination of classified and unclassified data sets. Texas lacks this infrastructure. If Texas were to detain a migrant without proper vetting, they could unknowingly be holding a known or suspected terrorist or transnational criminal, posing a potential threat to national security.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Providing important context.
Sam, thank you.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Stay tuned for more.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: That's a wrap for today. Thank you for tuning in. This is Margaret Brennan for FACE THE NATION.
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