Former President Donald Trump's Combative Testimony
Combative, angry and prone to grandiose claims — newly unveiled footage of an April 2023 deposition gives a glimpse into how former President Donald Trump behaves when testifying under oath.
The video, released to CBS News on Friday in response to a freedom of information request, shows Trump claiming to have averted a "nuclear holocaust" and "saving millions of lives" as president. A transcript of the deposition was previously made public as an exhibit in Trump's New York civil fraud case.
Trump testified at trial on Nov. 6, and his testimony that day often mirrored the April deposition.
During the trial, Trump said he was too "busy in the White House" to worry about his businesses. "My threshold was China, Russia and keeping our country safe," he said.
It echoed a response he gave in his April 2023 testimony in a small conference room with New York Attorney General Letitia James. He went further that day, explaining just what he believes he kept Americans safe from:
"I was very occupied. I considered this the most crucial task in the world, saving millions of lives. I believe there would have been a nuclear catastrophe if I hadn't dealt with North Korea. I believe there would have been a nuclear war if I weren't elected. And I think there might be a nuclear war now, if you want to know the truth," stated the unnamed source.
Kevin Wallace, a representative for James' office, interrupted.
"I'm not going to spend my seven hours discussing nuclear war," Wallace stated, before inquiring about any business-related concerns that arose during the unnamed source's presidency.
"I can hardly think of anything," the unnamed source responded, beginning a three-minute-long rambling response in which they praised their various properties for their profitability and criticized "violent crime in the streets" of New York City.
The unnamed source, along with their two adult children and their organization, were found guilty of fraud prior to the trial that aimed to address other allegations, including falsifying business records, conspiracy, and insurance fraud. James' office is seeking $370 million in damages and sanctions, including a lifetime ban on the unnamed source working in New York real estate. The judge overseeing the case has indicated that a ruling will be made in the upcoming weeks.
In both the deposition and during courtroom testimony, the unnamed source frequently directed their anger towards James and Wallace. During their testimony in November, they referred to the case as a "shame" and a "disgrace," insinuating that they were being punished for their success. Similar language was used during the deposition in April:
"You don't have a case and you should drop this case. And it's a shame that somebody that's done such a good job, the Convention Center in New York, so many things I did for this city, the job on the west side of Manhattan, thousands of people employed," Trump said. "And now I have to come and justify myself to you. I have to come after doing all of that and paid massive taxes, state taxes, and city taxes. And now I have to come in here and justify myself, and have crowds of people waiting in the street. It's a disgrace."
The full seven-hour deposition closely parallels his in-court testimony. Trump said both times that he separated himself from his business and put his assets in a trust, while claiming to have gone further than President George Washington, who "had two desks … one for his business and one for running the country. I could have had that." (In 2019, when Trump first made his claim about Washington's desks, a historian at Mount Vernon said there was no evidence that it was true.)
One person missing from Trump's deposition is the presence of a judge. In Trump's trial testimony — and as recently as this week in a different case — Trump also pointed at the bench, claiming to be victimized by the jurists overseeing proceedings, calling them "unfair" and "biased."
Trump also targeted some other familiar foes in both the deposition and during the trial, including Forbes magazine. The publication revealed in 2017 that Trump and his company had vastly misrepresented the size of his triplex apartment in Trump Tower.
"We are not recognized by a certain publication. I am familiar with this publication. You know, they have ties to another country. They are affiliated with a Chinese ownership group, and they have their own hidden motives," a spokesperson said, referring to a media company based in Hong Kong that acquired the publication in 2014.
The attorney's office claimed in the fraud case, and a judge in New York agreed, that the individual and their company artificially inflated the values of their properties and net worth over the years as part of a scheme to deceive banks and insurers into providing them with favorable terms on transactions. The individual, in both their deposition and trial testimony, argued that they actually underestimated their net worth and that their "brand value" alone makes them worth billions more than what their financial statements indicate.
Exhibits presented during the trial revealed that the banks involved explicitly stated that they would not consider "brand value" when evaluating the individual's finances for the loans in question. However, this did not deter the individual and their legal team from frequently emphasizing the importance of brand value.
"The brand is probably my most valuable asset, and surprisingly, I didn't even include it on the statement. If I wanted to create a statement that was high, I would have definitely put the brand on," stated a prominent figure.
